in educating corporate directors and lots of business schools and law schools regard this as a wonderful cash cow, to give short courses of various kinds for corporate directors. but it was unheard of in those days. and that was really, people say, well, what was it like to be the first woman on a board, and how did they treat you? and, yes, there was some initial looks of shock, and i still remember the little round southern gentleman who came about up to my shoulder who was head of reynolds tobacco, and we were talking -- i mean, there was some conversation going on, and he said some thing, he said, damn, and then he looked up at me and said, oh, pardon me, ma'am. and i thought, you know, if you heard what i heard on the college campuses of the 1960s, you would not be so apologetic for that damn. but by and large, they, they treated me with respect and eventually actually began to take what i said seriously. so i didn't, i didn't feel a lot of difficulties. but it was a wee bit loan he. lonely. >> did you feel in a unique did you feel you could relate to the other directors or not so much?